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Samus1111111
Default Sep 17th, 2008, 09:04 AM Old   #71

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At least they should have put all of the archers on the wall, so they could shoot. What's the point of archers if they are too far back to be able to shoot the enemy.

Hobbit Drinking Song:

All: H
ey, ho, to the bottom I go
to heal my heart and drown my woe.
The rain may fall, the wind may blow,
but there'll still be many miles to go.

Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain,
and the stream that falls from hill to plain.
Better than rain or rippling brook...

Lone Hobbit:
Is a mug of beer inside this Took!

(All Hobbits laugh and cheer)
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Pietrak
Default Sep 18th, 2008, 02:05 PM Old   #72

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Every wise commander holds something in reserve, so he can anticipate problems yet to come, at least not to be helpless if something unexpected occours.

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Radagast
Default Sep 19th, 2008, 05:01 AM Old   #73
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Like Théoden in the Battle of the Pelennor fields?

But yeah, you're right, it's desirable to hold something in reserve.


"When the snow falls and white winds blow, the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives." - Eddard Stark
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Pietrak
Default Sep 19th, 2008, 07:16 AM Old   #74

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Theoden didn't have much of a choice there, he would lift the sige or die. Besides, he knew he left an army behind his back in Anorien, so their coming would not suprise him

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turin son of hurin
Default The folly of Saruman the fool / Jan 11th, 2012, 05:14 PM Old   #75

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All Saruman had to do is beseige Helm's Deep and wait....

1. He knew of Eomer's forces and if his troops were outfitted with Pikes (as the movie, can't remember from the book) that weapon is Perfect against horses

2. He knew of Gandalf and could have either scryed or sent spies to tell him where he was headed. So even if Gandalf had come with the Eomer's forces they would have been decimated by the superior forces at Helm's Deep.

3. Even with the blasting (gun) powder he would have still had an army at his back and a useless fortress in hand with losses taken from conquering the Helm, so why waste the manpower?

Just some thoughts as I am watching the Extended Version of the TT and am incredulous!!
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Dante
Default Jan 16th, 2012, 03:04 AM Old   #76

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What Saruman should have done was position his entire army inside Helms Deep and a defender is him!
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Galendae
Default Alternate Reality of the movies verse Lore / Apr 29th, 2012, 09:27 AM Old   #77

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Quote: Originally Posted by turin son of hurin View Post
All Saruman had to do is beseige Helm's Deep and wait....

1. He knew of Eomer's forces and if his troops were outfitted with Pikes (as the movie, can't remember from the book) that weapon is Perfect against horses
Don't confuse the movies with Lore. Eomer arrived at Helm's Deep with Theoden and took part in its defense. Not like the movies portrayed. The whole Pike thing is Hollywood. At no point does Tolkien describe The Uruk-hai as armed with giant Spears or Pikes to ward off Cavalry charges.

Quote: Originally Posted by turin son of hurin View Post
2. He knew of Gandalf and could have either scryed or sent spies to tell him where he was headed. So even if Gandalf had come with the Eomer's forces they would have been decimated by the superior forces at Helm's Deep.
My take from the book is the only way Saruman would have known of the presence of Gandalf would be thru the Palantir. So saying definitively that "he knew of Gandalf" is a reach. The forces that arrive in the book to relieve Helm's Deep are those gathered by Gandalf from the remnants of the previous Battle of the Isen Ford. Gandalf used the speed of Shadowfax to co ordinate these dispersed forces. These men were led by their Lord, Erkenbrand,(not Eomer) who if memory serves me well was "Master of Westfold". These forces while timely, were not decisive, the arrival of the Hurons sealed the fate of Saruman's army.

Quote: Originally Posted by turin son of hurin View Post
3. Even with the blasting (gun) powder he would have still had an army at his back and a useless fortress in hand with losses taken from conquering the Helm, so why waste the manpower?
From the book, their was no army at Saruman's armies back. They had defeated and routed the forces under Theodred and Erkenbrand at the Battle of the Fords of the Isen. The road to Helm's Deep and for that matter the road to Edoras lay open to the hordes of Saruman. The army that appears is thru the effort of Gandalf and the valor of Erkenbrand and the hardmarching of the Westfolders of Rohan. In the book one gets the impression that the majority of Erkenbrands force is on foot.

I know you qualified your statements as based on the movies, but it is tough to swallow that crap in a Lore section. Read the books, and find the extended writings Tolkien did on the Battle of the Isen Ford and the timelines that lead to that battles in Rohan. Lots to chew on there. Lots gets explained too.

Galendae

"We have sworn, and not lightly. This oath we will keep. We are threatened with many evils, and treason not least; but one thing is not said: that we shall suffer from cowardice, from cravens or the fear of cravens. Therefore I say that we will go on, and this doom I add: the deeds that we shall do shall be the matter of song until the last days of Arda." -Fëanor

Last edited by Galendae: Apr 29th, 2012 at 09:32 AM. Reason: spelling
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